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Society gives far to much leeway to these kinds of moronic parents imo as a teacher, as those of us in education end up having to be the vanguard in speed running them through the concept that life isn't fair and the rules do not care about your big feelings or your whims of individual expression when they include standing on things that are not meant to be stood upon and not sitting when told to do so.
I really do think that society needs to step up with more shaming of the parents who inflict such terrible parenting on their precious little sunbeams and dole out significant consequences to them because that is the only way to nip this bs in the bud before it does irreparable harm to their offspring, especially as it's very common for this type to also choose to "homeschool" and ensure that not only do their children not learn how to interact with anyone who doesn't pander to their every whim but they also fail to get the most basic education, leaving them as complete drains on society.
I think you’ve landed on the reason this story in a small Canadian airport made international headlines: it’s a window into the failures of submissive parenting.
The real tragedy is that this stuff is catnip for right wing authoritarians who see proof that more child abuse is the solution. The reality is that submissive parenting is abusive too - it’s failing to provide the necessities of life, among which are helping the child understand their place in the world and they may have to do what they don’t want to from time to time.
Much of working in education is behaviour management, because nobody is born with an inherent sense of how to operate as an individual within a community and children are still in the early phases of understanding all of the things they need to do to try to get along as individuals within social and communal environments.
Children love strong boundaries, they feel much more secure about their place in any situation where they know what is and isn't acceptable, and where they can trust the adults around them to firmly and fairly enforce those boundaries when they are struggling to remember them or abide by them.
This is the mistake I see too many parents making: they think that being permissive to their children allows some kind of idealised organic growth into an adult that has all the best qualities of innocence and purity that our society associates with childhood, but all that happens is they create children and young adults who struggle to be considerate of others and who struggle to regulate their emotions because they are not receiving robust support and guidance to how to do this in a way that is not entirely self centred and doesn't require the whole world to bend to them in the process.
I think it is for the best that we stopped smacking our kids, but heck so many parents just seem to have dropped being in charge altogether. So many entitled little brats with no boundaries and it doesnt even actually make them happy, as well as being hell for everyone else.
I was horribly permissive until my eldest was 2.5 when I was luckily sent to become a parenting instructor. Quickly became really strong on boundaries and all three of my children are well behaved and happy.
Lord, as a fellow teacher, I can say you are absolutely tight. Parenting is horrendous these days. What happened? Why do so many parents want to be buddies with their kids rather than actual parents?
Speaking not from direct experience but from listening to and observing parents my own age in my social circle:
They had abusive, overly strict parents who treated them terribly, and they resolved to break the cycle of violence and trauma by NOT treating their kids the way they were treated
Unfortunately because there's very little genuinely reliable parenting information out there, especially in non-english languages, many ran too far the other direction and the kids ended up spoiled and unstructured
Western society doesn't use peer pressure / social pressure enough as a deterrent. In Many Eastern cultures there's more rules to fit into society if you break them you are a bit of an outcast. Rules for staying reasonably healthy, causing disturbances in public, or not obeying the social norms doesn't put you in jail get you a fine but instead places you as an outsider.
In Japan it's not normal to smoke and walk, or play music in public or jaywalk etc... nobody is going to arrest you for these things but there's tons of social pressures to guide you away from behaviours that are unwanted.
Nobody is going to arrest the parents / child and we know corporal punishment is not effective but humans can be conditioned to have a strong need to fit in, we don't condition people like that anymore. There's pros and cons of course, this is one of the cons that you see here.
I'm childcare adjacent and this 100% is happening more and more. People having taken the concept of gentle parenting and dialed it up to 11 where there are now no consequences for breaking rules.
And thats exactly why in countries like Germany there is no homeschooling but mandatory public school for everyone. Something that is often decried by US Americans as lack of freedom. What is not seen is that parents can inflict a serious harm on their own kids through bad or lack of parenting and later their adult children and society as a whole has to bear that burden. In combination with the knowledge that child abuse is most often inflicted on children by someone close to them, a society has to ensure that all children get a modicum of education and chances even when their parents are unable or unwilling to do so.
Are they going to pay for everyone’s wasted time then I’m ok with them having their kid expressing his individuality. This is a big problem in the US and Canada. Too much latitude for people to express themselves. We live in a society after all.
No zip ties necessary, put the child and parents in a fireman's carry and off they go. Maybe they can run on the escalator and get the whole airport shut down on their way out.
I took a flight Monday afternoon. Two kids were screaming before the plane was even loaded and the fight attendants walked the whole family back to the jetway to “give them a chance to regulate.” The kids never fucking once regulated, and kept screaming that they were sorry at the top of their lungs from the jetway, and then we pulled away from the terminal without them.
That was an option for this crew too. They could have diagnosed how bad the problem was and done the same, but they didn’t. I think everyone but that family on the flight is due compensation for how catastrophically badly the flight crew misjudged that situation until the last minute.
I work with a kid like that. He’s the only child out of several hundreds that I’ve ever disliked. If he doesn’t get what he wants exactly when he wants it, he screams at the top of his lungs and pretends to cry. Very convincing crying, but I’ve never seen an actual tear. On the admittedly rare occasion he gets disciplined (it’s only ever time out, and I do not get a say in when anything happens so there’s nothing I can do) he will scream and hit and kick until he realizes it’s not working and then he’ll scream, “I’m sorry! I’m sorry!” Repeatedly, at the top of his lungs, until he gets out of time out. Then he’ll go back to doing exactly what he was doing that got him into trouble in the first place.
Imagine that child, if the flight attendants hadn’t kicked that family off your flight. You’d all be miserable. Airlines need to take this shit more seriously because kids like this make people miserable.
And that child you just described grows into an adult. I have a mother like that. Clearly, these tactics paid off when she was a child. She still does them as an adult and now she loses friends and I don't put up with her. Parents are doing their kids a disservice if they don't discipline them and teach them how the world works.
Depending on the airport it’s flying into, arrivals are timed to the minute. If you miss your slot, you’re hoping to make another backup slot at some point. In the US, Seattle, Chicago, DC, all are airports that have constant flights landing or taking off. If you miss that slot, good luck finding another one
The time it took to “bridge the aircraft, deplane the passengers in question, retrieve their baggage, refile flight plans and other paperwork meant that it was too late to depart given that YYJ’s runway closes at 12:30 a.m.,” causing the flight to be canceled, the airline explained.
Once the aircraft pushes back, the gate is used for the next aircraft. The plane also needs to top off their tanks since they started the engines, then they have to file a new flight plan.
Then theres the rescheduling for a late arrival impacting other aircraft.
labor laws. flight crew have a time limit of how long they can work. if this was the last scheduled flight for the crew, they'd hit their limit in the air. thus they can't take the flight anymore.
and if no backup crew around....flight cancelled.
either you let tired pilots fly or make airlines have standby crew that might not be used.
other comments give other reasons why theres a countdown.
They missed the airport ‘open hours’ runway shut for the night. Was the last flight out… makes it worse because where you going to find a place to stay at midnight.
By the time it took to return to the gate, deplane, remove families luggage, THE Victoria International Airport RUNWAYS closed for the night. No Tower crew, no taking off.
After the 1988 Pan AM Flight 103 was downed at Lockerbie, Scotland, it became the standard to remove baggage for unaccounted for passengers or deplaned passengers.
Pilots sometimes have hours where if they are not in the air by a certain time, their shift is over and the flight has to be cancelled (after 8 hours or something). Had a pilot on one of my flights say "If we can board within 30 minutes we can leave, otherwise the flight WILL be cancelled."
So maybe it was that situation, or just a madeup ragebait 😄
I can just imagine if I were to pull some shit like this what my parents would have done. The only thing I'm certain about is that I would sure never even think about doing it again.
I have serious doubts about that kid maybe developing into a Gigachad sociopath, how the fuck can a 2 year old not be intervened for 60 fucking minutes?!
The 'kid' was a two year old so really a toddler. What the article suggests but doesn't quite state is that the toddler was in a normal seat and not something like a car seat. The airline doesn't supply baby seats and maybe the parents didn't know they should have until it was too late.
Maybe this should have been caught at boarding by staff/cabin crew, maybe they did and the parent argued it was fine.
TBH I originally was thinking like a 10 year old with severe mental development issues such they're still a toddler in an older body. All the energy and curious of a two year old but in a bigger stronger body that restraining is possible but just difficult.
I have been on 10 planes through america and australia in the last month and have never seen a 12 month old-3 year old in a car seat. If this used to be a practice in these countries, I don't believe it currently is.
We have flown with my now 6yo daughter five times. We bring her car seat (now just a booster) on the plane so that we can use it in a rental car and not depend on the absolute shit quality and beat up seats they'll rent to you for like $12/day. It doubles as a more comfortable plane seat for her that she's used to.
I get priority boarding to install it. My wife then brings her in the first zone for general boarding. She's chilling having a snack and watching a video as everyone else boards and she's usually asleep within 30 mins of takeoff. It's great.
Why more parents don't have the foresight to do this, I'll never understand.
Ive seen pictures of them duct taping uncooperative passengers mummy-style to their seat. It surely would not have been that hard for the few hundred adults aboard to subdue and tape down that demon child.
Cause instead of this headline, you would read today how the flightcrew/passengers hijacked/abused a poor little child and social media would want to send them to jail.
If that has really actually happened, I would imagine that must have been on a flight that was already in the air and likely had no alternative places to land, like on a transatlantic flight.
It's SOP for any passenger that may be a danger to others during a flight. Before takeoff, it's customary to have them removed, but that's not an option once the plane is in the air. And I couldn't find any news articles about it that suggested anyone other than the disruptive passenger got in any trouble.
I hate to judge parents too harshly just because of the actions of their child at times, but if the kid runs the house and the parents cannot keep them under control, make sure you have a game plan. If you know you cannot control your child then you need to think of everyone else on the flight you can screw out of getting where they need to get, in the timeframe they need to get there. How many people might miss weddings, funerals, births, graduations, or not make it to their destination in time to say goodbye to a loved one?
I obviously don’t know much about this situation, but as a parent myself, (all out of college now) I would never jeopardize the flight for everyone else on the plane unless it was dire that I get there at that time and you’d better believe I’d have that kid exerting themselves like crazy before the flight to tire them down. They may have an allergic reaction to something on the plane that they’ve never been near before. It might be a good idea to give them a Benadryl as a preventative measure before the flight also…
Can confirm this was 100% not an issue in the 80s. Parents ran households, not their children. If we got out of line, we were straightened out in short order, be that in private or in front of an audience.
I’d have had my ass beaten raw if I pulled some shit like this and I am not that old. This is some gentle parenting BS for sure. I’m not advocating for abusing kids but sometimes a slap on the ass is the only thing they understand, and kids need to have a healthy amount of fear/respect for their parents and adults in general.
The family was being kicked off. Their disembarking (is that the right word or is that just ships?) caused just a long enough delay that the runway closed for the night on them.
Luggage not belonging to anyone still on that plane can be a safety risk. It's become standard since the Lockerbie bombing to remove a deplaning passenger's luggage from the cargo hold.
shame the parents, this does not just happen. It is bad parenting and we need to stop letting people get away with it. if you can't control your kids don't travel with them. If you can't get a sitter don't travel.
This was before the flight left. The parents were given a chance to get him under control, they failed. The flight crew aren’t going to force him, especially with a 4 hour flight ahead of them to deal with the kid.
They had to go back to the terminal, remove the family, get the families luggage off the plane. By this time it was too late to take off again and the runway had closed for the night, which is common for smaller airports.
Replaced by "gentle parenting" where the kid gets to do whatever the fuck they want at the expense of everyone else.
I mean, why discipline the child when you can inconvenience 150 people and force them to sleep in the airport or find a hotel room at midnight? I'm sure they had nothing better to do anyways.
That's permissive parenting, not gentle parenting. Gentle parenting still involves disciplining your kids, its methods just don't include physically hurting the child. Gentle parenting works perfectly well and is much healthier for the kids long term than hitting them. Permissive parenting is the one that fails to parent because the parents act as a friend rather than a proper authoritary figure.
Ps. If you the reader take offense in calling a method that doesn't involve hitting kids better, do some research into the psychology of the subject lol. It has been researched and it has been found that hitting kids can have a plethora of negative consequences on mental health, psychology and brain development. Raise your kids how you wanna, this is just a comment on Reddit. But don't close your ears and go lalalalala when somebody brings up things you don't like. The existence of other things is not a threat
I wouldn't be surprised, if it turns out at least one person on board, be it passengers or crew was at one point genuinely thinking about breaking a kids kneecaps for this.
Probably someone worn out and completely out of it due to burnout levels of stress already.
Someone said in a comment elsewhere, imagine missing this flight and it was your last chance to visit a terminally ill family member or friend. That would be just devastating.
The aircraft left the terminal and headed to the runway for departure but a young child standing in their seat did not secure their seatbelt, despite attempts by the accompanying parent and cabin crew, Brad Cicero said.
...
Passenger Aryeh Kozuch says there was definitely "a lot of frustration," but the child wasn't being bratty or uncontrollable — rather, they were very scared.
"They just kept hiding under their seat. If they got forced into [being] strapped in, they just kind of slid out underneath."
But other passengers say the airline could have done more in a timelier fashion.
Someone linked an article that said the boy was scared and would slide out from under it and hide under his seat. They apparently tried for an hour or so until it was too late to eject them and their luggage before the runway closed for the night.
The difference between now and when I grew up. I couldn't have "refused" to sit down. I could either sit down without my ass hurting or sit down with it hurting to various degree depending on how stubborn I was wanting to be. But, either way, I would have sat down and buckled up.
I have no intention on having kids anyway, but if I did I don’t understand why this would deter me.
If my kid did this, I would simply make him sit down and wear the seatbelt.
Like I am genuinely confused about this story, was he flying alone? Were his parents really this inept? Why would they cancel the flight instead of just kicking the kid off?
Found the article, it says they were kicked off but the flight was too behind schedule so had to cancel, apparently took an hour to get them off though so I dunno how that happened but oh well.
Sounds like was one parent, and the child kept slipping out of the belt and under the seat, I am not sure how that’s possible or why it couldn’t be prevented. Sounds like the parent is at fault, as expected, but it’s baffling for a parent to have this little control over their kid, I have known lots of terrible parents (honestly, 99% of people complaining about children are actually just complaining about parents) but this is genuinely next level ineptitude.
How did they get the child into a seatbelt on the way to the airport?
He would have been in a carseat on the way, which he can't slip out of because it's sized for a child. There's clearly other issues at play here, but I can see a 3-year-old being able to slide out of an airplane seat.
If you news search it , story is legit and apparently raging toddlers have delayed other flights 😳
If your a parent who can’t manage your kids in public , may want to avoid flying.
I bet this will end up being an expensive life lesson for mom and dad.
According to the article, the flight staff also took way too long to respond here. Obviously the blame is completely on the parent(s) here, but some passengers reported that it took over an hour to have the family escorted off the plane.
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